Trump Lawyers Overheard At Lunch Discussing Clash Over Mueller Probe

By PETER BAKER and KENNETH P. VOGEL

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump’s legal team is wrestling with how much to cooperate with the special counsel looking into Russian election interference, an internal debate that led to an angry confrontation last week between two White House lawyers and that could shape the course of the investigation.

At the heart of the clash is an issue that has challenged multiple presidents during high-stakes Washington investigations: how to handle the demands of investigators without surrendering the institutional prerogatives of the office of the presidency. Similar conflicts during the Watergate and Monica Lewinsky scandals resulted in court rulings that limited a president’s right to confidentiality.

The debate in Trump’s West Wing has pitted Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, against Ty Cobb, a lawyer brought in to manage the response to the investigation. Cobb has argued for turning over as many of the emails and documents requested by the special counsel as possible in hopes of quickly ending the investigation — or at least its focus on Trump.

McGahn supports cooperation, but has expressed worry about setting a precedent that would weaken the White House long after Trump’s tenure is over. He is described as particularly concerned about whether the president will invoke executive or attorney-client privilege to limit how forthcoming McGahn could be if he himself is interviewed by the special counsel as requested.

The friction escalated in recent days after Cobb was overheard by a reporter for The New York Times discussing the dispute during a lunchtime conversation at a popular Washington steakhouse. Cobb was heard talking about a White House lawyer he deemed “a McGahn spy” and saying McGahn had “a couple documents locked in a safe” that he seemed to suggest he wanted access to. He also mentioned a colleague whom he blamed for “some of these earlier leaks,” and who he said “tried to push Jared out,” meaning Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, who has been a previous source of dispute for the legal team.

President Donald Trump's Chief of Staff John Kelly walks across the South Lawn to Marine One at the White House in Washington, Thursday, Sept. 14, 2017, to travel with President Donald Trump for a short trip to Andrews Air Force Base and then on to Fort Myers, Fla. to meet with citizens impacted by Hurricane Irma. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)
President Donald Trump’s Chief of Staff John Kelly walks across the South Lawn to Marine One at the White House in Washington, Thursday, Sept. 14, 2017, to travel with President Donald Trump for a short trip to Andrews Air Force Base and then on to Fort Myers, Fla. to meet with citizens impacted by Hurricane Irma. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)

After The Times contacted the White House about the situation, McGahn privately erupted at Cobb, according to people informed about the confrontation who asked not to be named describing internal matters. John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, sharply reprimanded Cobb for his indiscretion, the people said.

Cobb sought to defuse the conflict in an interview over the weekend, praising McGahn as a superb lawyer. “He has been very helpful to me, and whenever we have differences of opinion, we have been able to work them out professionally and reach consensus,” Cobb said. “We have different roles. He has a much fuller plate. But we’re both devoted to this White House and getting as much done on behalf of the presidency as possible.”

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, is investigating connections between Russia and Trump and his associates, including whether they conspired to influence last year’s election. Mueller is also looking into whether Trump’s decision to fire James Comey, the FBI director initially leading the investigation, constitutes obstruction of justice.

He has asked the White House for emails and documents related to these matters, and Cobb has organized the requests into 13 categories, but officials would not describe them in more detail. So far, officials said the White House has not turned down any request.

Trump’s aides said they were scrambling to respond to the requests to avoid a subpoena that might make it look as if the White House was not cooperating. Cobb hoped to turn over a trove of documents this week, according to people close to the legal team.

Cobb argues that the best strategy is to be as forthcoming as possible, even erring on the side of inclusion when it comes to producing documents, because he maintains the evidence will show Trump did nothing wrong. McGahn has told colleagues that he is concerned that Cobb’s liberal approach could limit any later assertion of executive privilege. He has also blamed Cobb for the slow collection of documents.

Complicating the situation is that McGahn himself is a likely witness. Mueller wants to interview him about Comey’s dismissal and the White House’s handling of questions about a June 2016 meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer said to be offering incriminating information about Hillary Clinton.

McGahn is willing to meet with investigators and answer questions, but his lawyer, Bill Burck, has asked Cobb to tell him whether the president wants to assert either attorney-client or executive privilege, according to lawyers close to the case. McGahn could face legal jeopardy or lose his law license should he run afoul of rules governing which communications he can divulge. He did not respond to requests for comment.

During the 1998 investigation into whether President Bill Clinton committed perjury and obstruction of justice to cover up an affair with Lewinsky, an appeals court ruled that government lawyers do not enjoy the same attorney-client privilege as private lawyers and that prosecutors in some circumstances can compel a White House lawyer to testify.

Trump’s legal team has been a cauldron of rivalry and intrigue since the beginning. His first private lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, grew alienated from the White House in part over friction with Kushner. The lawyer was unhappy that Kushner was talking with his father-in-law about the investigation without involving the legal team.

At one point, the private lawyers explored whether Kushner should resign because he was involved in the investigation, The Wall Street Journal reported. People close to the situation confirmed that talking points were drawn up to explain such a resignation, although it was not clear how directly the issue was raised with Trump.

Kasowitz was eventually pushed to the side, and Trump elevated John Dowd, a Washington lawyer with extensive experience in high-profile political cases, to take the lead as his personal lawyer. At the same time, Trump decided he needed someone inside the White House to manage the official response since McGahn, whose professional experience is mostly in election law, already handles a vast array of issues from executive orders to judicial appointments.

McGahn’s first choices turned down the job, in part out of concern that Trump would not follow legal advice. Eventually, Dowd introduced Trump to Cobb, another veteran Washington lawyer known for his high energy and expansive, curly mustache, and he was tapped as special counsel to the president, much to McGahn’s chagrin.

Tension between the two comes as life in the White House is shadowed by the investigation. Not only do Trump, Kushner and McGahn all have lawyers, but so do other senior officials. The uncertainty has grown to the point that White House officials privately express fear that colleagues may be wearing a wire to surreptitiously record conversations for Mueller.

Source : http://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/18/trump-lawyers-overheard-at-lunch-discussing-clash-over-mueller-probe/

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